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Post by lardconcepts on Oct 8, 2009 13:41:32 GMT
A friend has persuaded me to drive an old Leyland Titan from London to Mid-Wales.
I have a category D licence still valid to 2016, with restriction 78 "restricted to vehicles with automatic transmission".
I've driven nothing bigger than a few Luton vans in the past 18 years, and I'm not daunted by the idea of driving a decker again, but I really really want to make sure I get the insurance right!
I've also tried over and over to get through on the DVLA enquiry line to double check this, and apparently written enquiries are taking over 14 days.
And I'm also having trouble finding "one day" or short term insurance for this. All that's going to happen is it's going to get an MOT, get driven over, then this bloke's gonna put it in his hard, park it up, then...dunno! That's where it gets hazy - "I saw this bus cheap, so I thought 'why not', as you do".
I was even wondering if it wouldn't be cheaper for him to hire a breakdown driver to drag it up there? Possibly not.
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Post by Jonathan Smith on Oct 8, 2009 17:50:58 GMT
If you hold D 78 then you can drive the titan.
So long as it is still a bus and has seats.
You can get classic bus insurance or try Adrian Flux.
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Post by lardconcepts on Oct 19, 2009 19:42:47 GMT
Found Rigton insurance, which sorted things. However, I wonder if anyone thinks the following is safe:
Rigton (and others) won't insure in the driver's name, so it has to be in the owners name. Except, the owner would be 23.
He has suggested we put the bus in my name, get the insurance, drive it up, then immediately do the DVLA form and cancel the remaining insurance. All legal, but is there any possibility that this can go wrong?
When I said "a friend" at first, it was just for brevity, in fact it was as a result of a friend of a friend remembering someone was looking to drive a bus up, so I don't know this guy directly.
I've put my paranoid hat on and thought about all the possible implications. Is there a scam or something dodgy I'm getting roped into here?
But am I not seeing potential disaster by temporarily being an owner?
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Post by Jonathan Smith on Oct 19, 2009 21:08:05 GMT
The best option for insurance is to have the owner obtain insurance and add you as a named driver.
If you are getting paid to drive the bus, you are now getting into the realms of tachographs, operators licence and drivers hours regulations.
If you get stopped by the police or VOSA they could ask you to produce records of your work for the preceding month and tachographs for the trip and any other vehicles you have driven. This year they brought out new on the spot fines for the driver of large vehicles.
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Post by lardconcepts on Oct 20, 2009 9:42:28 GMT
Good note about the driver's hours - but I'm not doing it in a "professional driver" capacity. Is that still the same regs?
Also, I'm now sharing part of the journey with a bus enthusiast who is also licenced, who happens to want to get between two motorway junctions we're passing AND is happy to drive, so that'd be an hour's break for me in the middle of the journey. As insurance is same price, would that overcome any hours issue?
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Post by Jonathan Smith on Oct 20, 2009 20:51:01 GMT
It is upto the police, VOSA and the courts to decide to be honest.
If you are being paid to drive a bus then that is commercial use.
Having a second driver is multi manning, under multi manning both drivers must remain with the vehicle for the duration of the trip. The second driver must be onboard the vehicle within 1 hour of the vehicle leaving the departure point and remain onboard.
VOSA now have the power to seize the vehicle and impose substantial fines on the drivers, owners and operators for breaches of tachograph and driver hours regs.
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Post by lardconcepts on Nov 2, 2009 16:51:06 GMT
Phew! All sorted! Got a recording of the phone call to the DVLA too, and confirmation from the vendor that the bus:
doesn't have a tachograph
has been taxed and MOT'd for a different class than a commercial service bus.
In his words "you're not buying [or driving] a bus, you can't use it as a bus, it isn't a bus".
As the insurer noted, "just because you buy an old local delivery van from the Royal Mail in which members of the public aren't permitted in the driving seat, it doesn't mean you're buying a Royal Mail van and have to abide by RM rules!". I suppose another analogy would be those old ambulances that have been turned into burger vans...but let's not think about that analogy too hard!
Additionally, turns out my co-driver has been driving buses of all ages, from classics to demonstrators, to and from rallies for about 20 years now without incident and has never heard of this drivers requirement; it's only if the bus is being used to carry paying passengers at a rally, or for a wedding etc that all that kicks in.
One months to go! Got the truckers map, checked there's no mininum speed on the motorway (there isn't - good job too!).
I'm concerned about lack of breakdown cover - any idea how much towing a bus of the motorway would be if the worst happened?
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