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Post by Jonathan Smith on Jan 27, 2005 19:02:26 GMT
Feel Free to post any emails or correspondence you have with the DVLA with regard to driving licence requirements, registration, or any other matter.
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Post by Jonathan Smith on Jan 27, 2005 19:02:54 GMT
It is the maximum authorised mass (the total weight of the vehicle plus the
maximum load it can carry) which is relevant when determining the correct
driving entitlements. This is irrespective of whether the vehicle was
originally constructed as a passenger-carrying vehicle.
Although a mobile/motor home may be capable of seating more than 8 people it
is our understanding that it would not fall within the definition of
category D1 (minibus 9-16 passenger seats). The mobile/motor home is
designed primarily to carry fixtures and fittings which constitute the
"home", with the seating such as seats around a dining table being included
as part of those fixtures and fittings. This type of seating configuration
is quite different from the type you would associate with passenger carrying
vehicles.
Therefore, irrespective of the number of passenger seats in the vehicle the
driver would require the following entitlement:-
A) up to 3.5 tonnes will need to hold category B
B) between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes will need to hold category C1
C) over 7.5 tonnes will need to hold category C.
I am afraid that DVLA cannot give legal advice and that interpretation of
the law is a matter for the courts. Although the information I have given
is not intended as a statement of the law, I hope you will find it helpful
in determining the entitlement needed to drive the vehicle.
I hope you find this explanation helpful.
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steve
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by steve on Feb 8, 2005 11:01:11 GMT
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steve
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by steve on Feb 8, 2005 11:02:28 GMT
You will need to cut & paste those links
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Post by jimmy193 on Feb 8, 2005 15:14:30 GMT
Hi Steve, Can't cut & paste - just wont let me do it.  Tried going in to "bov.nu" and ended up in "Oooops websites".  (Like Freewebs I think)!! Can you post an image or something ? Jim |
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steve
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by steve on Feb 8, 2005 18:43:15 GMT
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Post by Jonathan Smith on Feb 8, 2005 22:45:44 GMT
That is actually a very good letter. If you take that letter to a solicitor you will find that the letter in fact does not say anything. They state that they cannot tell you the answer, then tell you what the law says, then give you their own interpretation. Take a look at this link www.rospa.com/roadsafety/consultations/2004/ec_third_directive.pdfIt more or less states that the D1 licence is the equivalent of C1, they want to reduce the C1 to 6t rather than 7.5t They say that the two vehicles are of similar size and weight which implys D1 is a vehicle upto 7.5t ?? The reason there are only 16 passenger seats in a minibus is that is how many seats you can fit in a vehicle under 7.5t? |
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Post by foxbat on Apr 6, 2006 22:05:48 GMT
Re-emails and correspondence with DVLA.
It is my intention to partially convert a coach, retaining 8 of the original seats in their original location. I approached DVLA and their interpretation of the rules is that if you take all of the seats out of a coach, it becomes an LGV and requires a C licence to drive the vehicle. However... they also stated that it would be highly unlikely that such a coverted vehicle could be used to actually take a C licence test in!!! (this despite the fact that it is likely to be the only LGV you will ever drive).
I ventured the question, at what point does the coach become an LGV, how many seats do I leave in for it to remain a bus and driveable on a D Licence. They studiously avoided this question.
It appears to me that they or some authority have come up with this rule but are not able to make it law.
The solution seems to me to drive the vehicle on a D licence whilst retaining the minimum number of seats for D1 minibus (not for hire or reward) since there is no legal definition of a minibus beyond its seating capacity.
It seems to me that, if it swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, has the tail feathers of a duck, the chances are it is a duck. Not a swan, not a chicken but a duck.
I strongly believe that the test for an LGV, should be specific to LGV's in tha accepted sense of the definition, ie a vehicle specifically designed for carrying goods.
From the 1970's onward most coaches are designed from the outset around a specifically designed coach chassis not that of a modified truck. The basis of DVLA's point of view is that by removing the seats the person carrying out the modification is in fact restoring the coach to it's truck origins. Maybe this was the case in the pre 70's but not now.
There is no way that a truck will handle anything remotely like a bus or a coach. The fact that the engine is or can be underfloor means that the C of G is that much lower and hence much less likely to roll over on a roundabout. The cargo is live and unpredictable.
On a slightly different note I also believe that it should be mandatory for anyone considering carrying out such a modification to undergo a formal training course ending in a legal requirement to take a Class D licence exam.
Given that it is, as I said, our intention to partially convert a 12 metre coach, and also having run out of money following redundancy last August, I recently joined Firstbus as a trainee driver at the age of 62. I pased the PCV driving test about a month ago and am now diving everything from Merc and Iveco midibuses to the sumptuous, all singing all dancing 12 metre Scania Omnicity. I have not only leared how to drive the vehicles but also more importantly how to drive them with a full passenger load. Its one thing driving these things in a straight line on a motorway and quite another driving them in our crowded, narrow, part pedestianised, roadwork ridden, potholed streets. With 10 feet of bus in front of the front wheels and 12 feet behind the back wheels one very quickly realises the skills involved in driving modern vehicles.
I just want to be completely, totally legal both in GB and in Europe when I take my 'Hotelbus' on the road later this year. Just me and my wife and my two dogs.
Legal and Safe. So please, anyone considering converting a bus or coach, follow Jonathan's advice. Get some formal training the life yiu save may just be your own (or mine).
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Post by GeorgeTelford on Apr 15, 2006 15:08:54 GMT
Hi
Its never been my contention that people should drive huge motorhomes without some training, however the law as it stands means anyone with a Pre 97 licence can legally, post 97 I think they still can but its harder to prove.
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(Like Freewebs I think)!!